mini-interview with doktorb! -- magenta
HEADLESS BLOOD IDOL 02.25.2021
DOKTORB- on ULTIMATE CRINGE COMPILATION, datamoshing, the internet, myspace, the state of online music today, we reveal some of his shadowy experimental past, and get a little background as to what cosmic forces aligned to give him power over children's minds!
I got to sit down on a day off and quickly interview doktorb for an hour about the recent video set for his recent ULTIMATE CRINGE COMPILATION
i'm notsleeping: doktorb is doktorb:
<jumping right into it>
notsleeping: so did you process the same stuff mutiple times?
notsleeping:
you said you did both the thing, and the layering of effects on your video editing program?
doktorb: Some of the stuff in the video you saw was reprocessed 2 or 3 times
doktorb:
But the more you process it the more it breaks and leaves these weird frozen bits that you have to cut out
notsleeping:
that makes sense to me
notsleeping:
since it deletes keyframes or whatever right?
doktorb:
Yeah. So the video player doesn't know when to resent all the pixels and the the change of pixels in the new scene pushes the old images pixels around the screen
notsleeping:
do you have a second to chat? i can kinda mini-interview you
doktorb:
It's like the new input distorts the old
doktorb:
Yeah sure
notsleeping:
im kinda imagining like when you see a gif thats messed up
notsleeping:
so how long have you been messing with datamoshing?
doktorb:
I started stuffing around with it last year.
doktorb:
I did a lot of trial and error
notsleeping:
was it something that you had been meaning to check out or like did you see something that made you think to get into it
doktorb:
It is pretty much a similar trip to rave.dj like you need an instinct for how the two sources will interact
notsleeping:
i know i've been meaning to figure it out for quite some time and not just gotten down with it
doktorb:
I always loved the aesthetic so I was always interested in it.
doktorb:
I actually got off my ass coz I wanted to use it in a class I was teaching
notsleeping:
so yeah you said trial and error, i imagine a lot of what comes out is like, useless garbage
notsleeping:
oh word! thats really cool, so you like, skilled up to share it with your students?
doktorb:
Yeah. For the moshing to come up good the two pieces of footage need to be sufficiently contrasty, they are too similar sometimes the difference won't get picked up. Also each one needs to be really smooth. If there are jagged bits (shaky camera or pre-existing blips in the footage) it can kinda wipe the moshing effect - so it's distorted for a second and then resets to normal. Oh and also I did a bunch of experiments with GIFs and discovered that you need to frame rate to be high enough that it doesn't break the spell.
notsleeping:
ohhh
notsleeping:
that makes sense
doktorb:
With my students I was teaching them about how file formats have a texture. So I got them to do experiments like recompressing a file 5 times or moshing a file to look at how the quality of the image format has it'a own personality
doktorb:
It was a workshop on glitch in art.
notsleeping:
so for the record i'm talking to Doktorb about the recent video set for his recent ultimate cringe compilation
notsleeping: so heck! you got to learn a lot of real-world stuff in a really short time with so many test cases to observe
LABEL : Junk Maker Sounds
TITLE: ultimate cringe compilation, by doktorb
FORM: 7 track album
notsleeping:
it feels like you got the hang of the sorcery very well, everyone watching was really, like, i don't know if its the right word, but in AWE?
notsleeping:
maybe spellbound is the right word
notsleeping:
like just people interacting with your format had people's heads melting
notsleeping:
and then on top of that, the content was good
doktorb:
I just did 9 billion versions of everything. There is a whole HD full of dreck. I have so much Vanessa Hudgens footage
notsleeping:
oh my god, i know that feeling, its like even tiny renders of video are huge
doktorb:
Also thank you!!!! <3!!!!
notsleeping:
i feel like i less have a hobby and more a legitimate pipeline to filling up infinite harddrives
doktorb:
Filling up HDs is a lifestyle
notsleeping:
yeah! i knew what i was in for, and i was extremely loving it/ impressed notsleeping:
i could see the sorcery at work
doktorb:
And then not remembering what drive the thing you need is on
notsleeping:
so originally, was there a tutorial that you learned from or like was there anyone who like clued you in, or like was it a lot of checking different sources and trial and error getting things to finally click?
notsleeping: or like, was it a fast learn once you got into it
doktorb:
Oh yeah. I think you pinned it in the tools and programs channel.
notsleeping:
feel free to list any good tuts or etc, and i'll look them up, i think ive got some links from you to post yeah
notsleeping:
so like, how long would you estimate you spent on the visual component of that set
doktorb:
That's the best one because most other tutorials work with an older version of avidemux that has all these exploits in it which were fixed for the current version so they are useless now.
doktorb:
This one tells you how to get around the fixes.
notsleeping:
ive heard yeah there are version considerations
doktorb:
For that particular set? How long.... I spent waaaaaaaay too long. Probably 3 weeks. Obsessing about it doktorb:
Maybe 4
notsleeping: is it like 2.7.2 or something and before? or was it like 2.0.2 i forget
doktorb:
2.7.4is the latest version
notsleeping:
ahhh that makes sense why its fresh in my mind ha
doktorb:
the older ones, if you have a legacy copy are aparently. way easier to work with
notsleeping:
do you feel like the extra time in the lab paid off? i can definitely say it didnt hurt! the results were like dream-melting notsleeping:
i combined dream-like and mind-melting
doktorb:
Most of the time was spent fixing mistakes where i couldn't get things to work. Or where an idea looked shit so I had to drop in new segments coz the idea was bad.
notsleeping:
you mentioned that the more you run a file thru the process, the more you break large sections of the file notsleeping:
so sorta diminishing returns? the more you work the magic the more manual wizardry is required it sounds like
doktorb:
Yeah. So in the moment where footage A starts to get broken by footage b
doktorb: there is a fragment of lag coz you are causing an error that can't be read smoothly doktorb:
The more you repeat, the longer the lag coz the more error
notsleeping:
like momentary trash data, i got that notsleeping:
yeah that makes sense. what about when you mix different jacked up footage. does that even work?
doktorb:
It's not diminished returns though coz it's the footage freezing, if you cut out the bad bit and cross fade you don't really lose anything and the result is more extreme
notsleeping:
ohhh yeah that is true. so just the more your freeze bits grow
doktorb:
Moshing moshed footage can work well if as long as you select the segments carefully.
notsleeping:
you are like, cursing the footage and the cursed section grows each time
doktorb:
Yeah doktorb:
And you can cut the bit out and they pieces on either side are untouched
notsleeping:
oh!! yes thats right because you said there are some kinda concrete considerations on your blending sources
doktorb:
yeah exactly.
notsleeping:
so circling back around to your like background, how long have you been making music in specific, and like art in general?
doktorb:
Music? Oh dang!! My first gig was in like 1999. doktorb:
It was terrible
notsleeping:
ha
doktorb:
I had a synth and guitar pedals and a looper
notsleeping:
damn it sounds like you were ahead of the curve at least somewhat
doktorb:
This current sort of stuff I started doing in like 2010 doktorb:
Before that I was doing live ambient stuff with junk hardware
notsleeping:
heck yeah
doktorb:
And I played in a freakout noise rock improv band doktorb:
Our music got nuked in the Great MySpace catastrophe doktorb:
and I've been looking for a copy of our ep ever since
notsleeping:
ayyy those are great, it sounds like you come from a solid sonic pedigree notsleeping:
ahhh oh no
doktorb:
I would give anything to go back in time and warn them about what was going to happen so that someone could stop it at MySpace HQ doktorb:
I miss MySpace
notsleeping:
i pulled all my music off myspace back in the day because weird little blips of the tracks i posted there started showing up in like radio station ads and stuff! and then the big archive collection of music and everyone is grooving to their own jams but Not Me, because I Am A Hater, apparently lol notsleeping:
right? we thought that was the worst it got notsleeping:
when kids got on myspace and the entire site got blinged out notsleeping:
everything a sparkling gif lol
doktorb:
Haha! Custom pages were so funny
notsleeping: IT WASNT THAT BAD, I TAKE IT BACK
doktorb:
So many animated gifs you could get sea sick
notsleeping:
yeah lol notsleeping:<blink> the page notsleeping:
so tell me about ULTIMATE CRINGE COMPILATION
doktorb:
I mean. It was bad but in retrospect knowing the future it looks so much better now
notsleeping:
it sounds like that name has some type of artistic statement behind it, i can feel it notsleeping:
yeah i mean it was bad THEN notsleeping:
it would be grand NOW
doktorb:
As far as what I was trying to say... um... so I guess it started last year with the imagine video and the Vanessa Hudgens Instagram Story where she was like "people are going to die which is like inevitable". I just got really interested in the idea that all this history was being funnelled through timelines an
notsleeping:
oof
doktorb:
I just started extracting all the video that was trending on my Twitter and Instagram doktorb:
And I decided I wanted to make a thing out of it that was like what it felt to be in that moment.
notsleeping:
that sounds like a healthy way to handle things
doktorb:
So I just literally had a folder full of so much garbage that came out of last year, it was like a tome capsule and I started figuring out how to make it into 'music'
notsleeping: at the time, did it feel productive, or did you feel a little bit like you were force-washing yourself in bad tweets notsleeping: sometimes i have mixed feelings about doing similar notsleeping: it feels GREAT once i finish the art, but boy collecting all the bullshit sometimes does not feel wonderful
doktorb:
No it felt really productive and therapeutic. Coz everything was making me angry or frustrated or sad and I transformed it into these audio skits that made me laugh
notsleeping: YES! awesome. thats the best, when it's like fuck all this noise i am actively converting this into art notsleeping: ha! thats really smart, it's like positive conditioning
doktorb:
I actually really liked collecting it. I am really sentimental and I'm always saving things as mementos so it was actually really fun
notsleeping: i know when i do a goofy sample version of something then i see the horrid shitty version and i only think of the dumb form and its like mentally disarmed for me
doktorb:
It's kind of become an ongoing thing. My Twitter bookmarks are just a shopping list of things I need to rip and save so I can make music out of them. I think it's probably the only reason I'm still on the site
doktorb:
YES!! This!!!!!
notsleeping: ha yeah i have an evergrowing list of twitter bookmarks, and i wonder sometimes when future me is going to have the time to scroll past the like 80 pages i bookmark daily lol notsleeping: i dont know what id do without twitter bookmark ha
doktorb:
Haha! It's a curse of the endless scroll doktorb:
Saving so much and then you are like wait... this is just as chaotic
notsleeping: ha! yeah twitter sucks because its got its use but its use is like ... promoting the things you do while you ARENT on twitter lol
doktorb:
Yeah. Sometime it feels like a market place where everyone is screaming at each other
notsleeping: yeah sometimes you can save too much stuff, and then future you is saddled with sorting it heh. i am an obsessive archiver as a fault. ( future me if you are reading this, im sorry for all the work i leave for you to handle )
doktorb:
or maybe that's just coz I get overloaded with all the events and streams and whatnot that I want to attend
notsleeping: its great to be able to catch up on a few things, and i know everyone says like just make lists of accounts you want to follow for this or that but like
i dont
doktorb:
I have like 9000000 albums that I am going to get to thanks to twitter
notsleeping: so anyway! yeah thats what i wanted to talk to you about next, are you liking all of these places for artists to play music/sound/visuals or what?
doktorb:
It's so good but also terrible coz I never feel like I can give anything my proper full attention
notsleeping: theres a lot of music, all the time notsleeping: yeah it never stops, and its all good notsleeping: theres just physically too much quality content to consume notsleeping: i really rely on my friends to enjoy something and then be like <quote tweet> this good notsleeping: i'm subtly trying to mention the importance of posting on social media when you like something underground, to anybody reading notsleeping: because no reviewers catch a lot of this stuff, its important to just say "this is good" about stuff you like. it doesnt have to be like eloquent
doktorb:
The places for people to play question... I think it's really cool how many opportunities there are for people. I kinda get worried about how certain platforms have monopolies. Like Twitch is amazing for streaming events but what happens if they change their policies to not in our advantage, same with bandcamp doktorb:
Like there are so many good events and releases and it's so cool that it's so democratised but I worry that it's all so dependent on corporate products
but with the scale of things nothing homebrew could like handle the demand
notsleeping: yeah i was searching for a self-hosted alternative to twitch/youtube for a minute and there werent a ton of options for poor people rolling their own infra, as far as i could determine notsleeping: there are some options, i will say that, if you run your own webserver, and aren't on a webhost
doktorb:
Do you think it's possible to get audiences off the corporate platforms? Like if you did an event elsewhere would people go go do you think? Or would it be like too much effort coz it's not on a familiar thing?
notsleeping: but i think a lot of us are in that place where its not viable to do either home webserver or top-end web hosting package notsleeping: i mean. do i think there are eyes and interest? yeah notsleeping: do i think the eyes will go where the interest goes? yeah notsleeping: but also, do i think its smart to bet on drawing ppl off a large platform? no notsleeping: pretty much seems like you need to do a little of both notsleeping: but we both could probably think of some of the bigger "underground" acts now that have broke, that if tomorrow they were like PRIVATE CONCERT ON DISCOUNTGLOVESWORLD.COM LOBBY, people would show, and fill the server
doktorb:
That's a good point
notsleeping: its just one of those things. good quality content is a draw in itself, you dont have to market if the shit bangs hard notsleeping: but even the people whos shit bangs hard still have to market, and carve out attention notsleeping: just kinda.. the major label $$$ helps speed that along notsleeping: but i do feel like there are more options than ever for someone to carve out their own audience with hard work, instead of just cash only notsleeping: but like, it sucks watching a lot of ppl put in work to create content for platforms
doktorb:
Yeah yeah yeah!!! This is the thing right? Social Media Corps give us the tools to democratise all this stuff that in the past needed $$$$ and a label backing to get the airtime but now we are all like making free shit for the platforms to earn their profits on. So it's like better but the politics, ethics and economics are really like... precarious, don't know if that is the word
notsleeping: yeah exactly. its a fairly fragile system for creators notsleeping: i do feel like if things get worse, we'll see something new pop up notsleeping: but has capitalism made it cost too much for someone like that to stay in biz? thats something else
doktorb:
Right?!! And it is based on like mutual aid where we all pass the same banknote around.
notsleeping: YEP
doktorb:
So it's creators supporting each other with the same money rather than new money getting pumped in. Not that it should be about money but... you know... it kind of ends up here whether we like it or not. doktorb:
And when platforms do monetise it's always only like 0.000001% that benefit
and the rest of us keep doing what we do.
notsleeping: well, i don't want to complain too much about the kinda gloomy system we're all in creating art, but yeah i do have trust in people continuing to do what they can to support eachother
doktorb:
Yeah. I don't think it's good to complain about it. But it is important to be like aware of the precarity of the ecosystem that makes all the good stuff possible doktorb:
Like we have to value and fight for the good parts doktorb:
and understand the limitations of the bad parts doktorb:
so we can keep going doktorb:
and not get burnt out
notsleeping: agree. its important that young artists realize that all of these platforms will probably come and go, and its important to craft a platform of your own
doktorb:
THIS!!!!!!
notsleeping: <nodding sagely>
doktorb:
Like it isn't about this platform or that platform. It is about understanding that there will always be a platform and you need to know how to finesse it ethically
notsleeping: so to kinda turn the mood around and wrap up a little, tell me some trends and stuff that you're seeing in anything that gets you kinda hyped to wake up in the morning and do you
doktorb:
but understanding that it is a finesse coz the platform isn't your friend and that is totally OK doktorb:
Haha!!
notsleeping: (after you get done training up the future artists and free thinkers of your local area)
doktorb:
Man that is so hard to put into words.
notsleeping:
ha notsleeping:
yeah it was easy for me to ask the question notsleeping:
sucker
doktorb:
I think that the thing that really gets me hyped it people. There are so many awesome people doing their thing. And being open to like dialogue and just interact. and that feeling that beyond all the bullshit human spirit is real doktorb:
Gah! That sounds terrible
notsleeping:
oh dang yeah i feel that notsleeping:
no you nailed it
doktorb:
I mean so many people are just doing themselves. It's so good
notsleeping:
you got me with an even deeper and more generalized answer than i was shooting for with that super deep and generalized question notsleeping:
its good right? seeing all the styles?
doktorb:
And you can just approach them and be like this you that you've got going on is awesome doktorb:
And start talking to people about stuf doktorb:
and it like breaks down so many gatekeepy barriers from old school scenes
notsleeping:
yeah for real! all these like personal jams and you can just be like hey i dig what you do! keep it up!
doktorb:
On that level everything is so much better
notsleeping:
yeah like, i dont want fans, i want peers notsleeping:
im so hyped when i see people doing them and like doing it HARD
doktorb:
Like no one is scrutinising you and being like you are not valid and it they are fuck it coz there are a 100 more cooler people who are open
notsleeping:
yeah like back in the day things felt a lot more elitist and restrictive
doktorb:
So restrictive
notsleeping:
fuck just being able to put your music up online and sell it is like so much freeing vs having to try to like MEET SOME ASSHOLE and get them to PUT YOU ON
doktorb:
Yeah
notsleeping:
and also, you dont need to like .. even have a record label involved any more
doktorb:
And because of that there are so many more different things happening and so much stuff that is hybrid and sprawling into this amorphous goodness
notsleeping:
yeah theres just support for EVERYONES styles, as like branching expressions, not as like DIFFERENT THAN NORM
doktorb:
So good
notsleeping:
alright this has been a pretty good chat!
doktorb:
Yeah! doktorb:
Thank you
notsleeping:
to kinda wrap things up, can you shout our your web links and contact infos and stuff like that? notsleeping:
heck yeah! i had a lot of fun at that concert, and figured there could totally be more info on the internet talking to datamosh sorcerers!!
doktorb:
I'm so happy that you liked it!!! And I was super stoked that you were there. Like I said it meant heaps!!
doktorb:
As far as my links I only have Soundcloud and Twitter at the moment.
